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	<title>Comments on: Restructuring the MCAT</title>
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		<title>By: AndruBrown</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2536</link>
		<dc:creator>AndruBrown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2536</guid>
		<description>Joseph Kim is correct. The landscape of medicine is changing. Medical school must keep pace if they are to meet the needs of patients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph Kim is correct. The landscape of medicine is changing. Medical school must keep pace if they are to meet the needs of patients.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2535</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2535</guid>
		<description>One misconception that several people have made on this post is that the subjects tested in the MCAT are arbitrary. They are there to match to prerequisite classes established over ninety years ago for medical school. If they were arbitrary, they could test on any subject they want and say that if you can&#039;t think critically about this issue you probably wont think critically as a doctor. Obviously critical thinking is not that simple. The real issue is whether or not the current prerequisite classes must stay. Ninety years ago the world&#039;s knowledge of physics, chemistry and biology was very different than our modern knowledge. Many professors and admissions committees still like the ochem requirement, not because it has anything to do with medical practice but because it is a good filter for hard workers. However, there are many difficult classes that could be made as national prerequisites that are difficult, they just haven&#039;t gotten around to changing that part of the system.

Realistically, in modern medicine it would be more reasonable to require students to take classes in inorganic chemistry, biology, molecular and microbiology, genetics, histology, statistics, nutrition, anatomy and physiology, business, statistics, computer science, and/or behavioral sciences. These would be more related to actual medical knowledge and practice but would require a complete change in the way admissions committees view applications and how the MCAT is structured. Some people say the important thing is find critical thinkers and not just students who have a great deal of medically related knowledge. However, if the point is just have difficult classes that require critical thought regardless of whether or not they are related to medicine, why not require dance, calculus, a course in quantum mechanics of language courses (yes I know some schools already require calculus.) These courses are difficult and require critical and creative thought. The issue is that we need relevant critical thinking. The prerequisite courses ought to be changed because they make little sense and the MCAT should change to follow suit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One misconception that several people have made on this post is that the subjects tested in the MCAT are arbitrary. They are there to match to prerequisite classes established over ninety years ago for medical school. If they were arbitrary, they could test on any subject they want and say that if you can&#8217;t think critically about this issue you probably wont think critically as a doctor. Obviously critical thinking is not that simple. The real issue is whether or not the current prerequisite classes must stay. Ninety years ago the world&#8217;s knowledge of physics, chemistry and biology was very different than our modern knowledge. Many professors and admissions committees still like the ochem requirement, not because it has anything to do with medical practice but because it is a good filter for hard workers. However, there are many difficult classes that could be made as national prerequisites that are difficult, they just haven&#8217;t gotten around to changing that part of the system.</p>
<p>Realistically, in modern medicine it would be more reasonable to require students to take classes in inorganic chemistry, biology, molecular and microbiology, genetics, histology, statistics, nutrition, anatomy and physiology, business, statistics, computer science, and/or behavioral sciences. These would be more related to actual medical knowledge and practice but would require a complete change in the way admissions committees view applications and how the MCAT is structured. Some people say the important thing is find critical thinkers and not just students who have a great deal of medically related knowledge. However, if the point is just have difficult classes that require critical thought regardless of whether or not they are related to medicine, why not require dance, calculus, a course in quantum mechanics of language courses (yes I know some schools already require calculus.) These courses are difficult and require critical and creative thought. The issue is that we need relevant critical thinking. The prerequisite courses ought to be changed because they make little sense and the MCAT should change to follow suit.</p>
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		<title>By: re:</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2534</link>
		<dc:creator>re:</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2534</guid>
		<description>Joshua you don&#039;t think the MCAT is a high pressure situation? :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua you don&#8217;t think the MCAT is a high pressure situation? <img src='http://studentdoctor.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2533</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2533</guid>
		<description>I think it is important to have a good way to determine the ability of a prospective medical student. The MCAT is great in determining the scientific ability of a student as well as their ability to process info quickly. However, books, shows, and some first hand knowledge portray doctors in training as unhappy/burned out and even suicidal. Just as college isn&#039;t for some people, perhaps medicine isn&#039;t for others. I believe that there should be some way to discriminate those who can handle the stress and those who can not. Some may say that shadowing is the best way to determine if medicine is a person&#039;s desirable career choice. I disagree! Getting into medical school is, in large part, is a long obstacle course comprised of jumping through hoop after hoop (shadowing being one of the hoops). Shadowing is merely and activity that a prospective med student has to check off their list of unofficial requirements to get into medical school. There needs to be a better way to determine a person&#039;s ability under high pressure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is important to have a good way to determine the ability of a prospective medical student. The MCAT is great in determining the scientific ability of a student as well as their ability to process info quickly. However, books, shows, and some first hand knowledge portray doctors in training as unhappy/burned out and even suicidal. Just as college isn&#8217;t for some people, perhaps medicine isn&#8217;t for others. I believe that there should be some way to discriminate those who can handle the stress and those who can not. Some may say that shadowing is the best way to determine if medicine is a person&#8217;s desirable career choice. I disagree! Getting into medical school is, in large part, is a long obstacle course comprised of jumping through hoop after hoop (shadowing being one of the hoops). Shadowing is merely and activity that a prospective med student has to check off their list of unofficial requirements to get into medical school. There needs to be a better way to determine a person&#8217;s ability under high pressure.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony H.</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 04:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2532</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s quite funny thinking about the MCAT and those who will be taking it.  A great number of people entering medical school are young, with little to no life experience, and very limited medical/patient experience (perhaps non outside of a shadowing experience).  This standardized test may do a decent enough job in measuring logical, analytical, and gross memorization skills, but it has little to do with predicting one&#039;s potential as a physician.  Furthermore, I doubt that one could actually guage this with such finite test and I doubt that is the aim of it anyways. 
The caliber of a physician is forged throughout that person&#039;s entire socialization process leading up to where they might be at that specific time.  It is a very subjective to term a physician &quot;great&quot; or anything for that matter.  Each physician will have a their particular niche in the fabric of medicine.
But since they are changing the testing process it would be great if they could give some shoulder massages PRN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s quite funny thinking about the MCAT and those who will be taking it.  A great number of people entering medical school are young, with little to no life experience, and very limited medical/patient experience (perhaps non outside of a shadowing experience).  This standardized test may do a decent enough job in measuring logical, analytical, and gross memorization skills, but it has little to do with predicting one&#8217;s potential as a physician.  Furthermore, I doubt that one could actually guage this with such finite test and I doubt that is the aim of it anyways.<br />
The caliber of a physician is forged throughout that person&#8217;s entire socialization process leading up to where they might be at that specific time.  It is a very subjective to term a physician &#8220;great&#8221; or anything for that matter.  Each physician will have a their particular niche in the fabric of medicine.<br />
But since they are changing the testing process it would be great if they could give some shoulder massages PRN.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Kim, MD, MPH</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Kim, MD, MPH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>As the healthcare system evolves, the entire medical school admissions process needs to be restructured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the healthcare system evolves, the entire medical school admissions process needs to be restructured.</p>
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		<title>By: Sorry for the long post!</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2530</link>
		<dc:creator>Sorry for the long post!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2530</guid>
		<description>Really appreciate the responses here from ray and Derrick--great insight. I have a few questions I hope you won&#039;t mind answering:
I can envision how the new computer-based MCAT could test spatial orientation with 3D modeling, but how would test interpersonal skills be tested? Isn&#039;t that what the interview is for? Will there be a mix of behavioral interview type questions on the new MCAT, asking how the test-taker would handle each situation? I think the only way to really gauge the way an applicant interacts socially is in person, as marking the correct response on a test doesn&#039;t guarantee that the same behavior would ensue in real life. 

The current MCAT does a good job of testing logic and critical thinking. In this increasingly litigious society, sensitive doctors seem to be favored over more blunt doctors, possibly reducing malpractice lawsuits. In addition, with decreasing reimbursements it would probably be a good idea to select for people who would not mind taking a drastic pay cut. The only way I can think of to test an applicant&#039;s interpersonal skills would be to have a test similar to the clinical skills test in medical school, where actors play the roles of patients. But premed students clearly have not yet learned how to assess patients.

It seems like the current system of secondary essays expanding on personal qualities, recommendation letters, and the interview are good ways to select for humanistic qualities. I am curious as to how a computer-administered test could be designed to do this, as those same qualities are inherently based on feeling rather than thinking. Tests can measure lots of things but humans are the best gauge of other humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really appreciate the responses here from ray and Derrick&#8211;great insight. I have a few questions I hope you won&#8217;t mind answering:<br />
I can envision how the new computer-based MCAT could test spatial orientation with 3D modeling, but how would test interpersonal skills be tested? Isn&#8217;t that what the interview is for? Will there be a mix of behavioral interview type questions on the new MCAT, asking how the test-taker would handle each situation? I think the only way to really gauge the way an applicant interacts socially is in person, as marking the correct response on a test doesn&#8217;t guarantee that the same behavior would ensue in real life. </p>
<p>The current MCAT does a good job of testing logic and critical thinking. In this increasingly litigious society, sensitive doctors seem to be favored over more blunt doctors, possibly reducing malpractice lawsuits. In addition, with decreasing reimbursements it would probably be a good idea to select for people who would not mind taking a drastic pay cut. The only way I can think of to test an applicant&#8217;s interpersonal skills would be to have a test similar to the clinical skills test in medical school, where actors play the roles of patients. But premed students clearly have not yet learned how to assess patients.</p>
<p>It seems like the current system of secondary essays expanding on personal qualities, recommendation letters, and the interview are good ways to select for humanistic qualities. I am curious as to how a computer-administered test could be designed to do this, as those same qualities are inherently based on feeling rather than thinking. Tests can measure lots of things but humans are the best gauge of other humans.</p>
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		<title>By: Darrick</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2529</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2529</guid>
		<description>The comment by Missy underscores the mere fact that, as Ray has pointed out, today it is not so much a question of who CAN or WILL succeed in both medical school and as a practicing physician. Rather, it is about limiting admittance to the most qualified (in all aspects) and to those with the highest potential to go above and beyond to contribute to modern medicine and become a respectable part of a highly distinguished career in medicine.  What that exactly looks like is not always clear nor measurable and it definitely is not the same for every physician. Needless to say, it goes back to the reality that, really, the majority of medical school applicants would probably more or less pass medical school and boards just fine; but what about the subsequent years participating in the endless journey of becoming a great physician? That is the real question that the writers of the MCAT and more importantly, medical school admission teams ought to be answering with much thought and consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comment by Missy underscores the mere fact that, as Ray has pointed out, today it is not so much a question of who CAN or WILL succeed in both medical school and as a practicing physician. Rather, it is about limiting admittance to the most qualified (in all aspects) and to those with the highest potential to go above and beyond to contribute to modern medicine and become a respectable part of a highly distinguished career in medicine.  What that exactly looks like is not always clear nor measurable and it definitely is not the same for every physician. Needless to say, it goes back to the reality that, really, the majority of medical school applicants would probably more or less pass medical school and boards just fine; but what about the subsequent years participating in the endless journey of becoming a great physician? That is the real question that the writers of the MCAT and more importantly, medical school admission teams ought to be answering with much thought and consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: ray</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2528</link>
		<dc:creator>ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 22:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2528</guid>
		<description>RE: MIssy

The goal is not to prevent anybody from becoming physicians.  But, the reality is that there are only limited medical schools with limited seats, in the face of a vastly growing number of students applying to medical school.  The goal is to identify who would best deserve those seats, by predicting how much they are likely to contribute to medicine itself or to society if they are trained to be physicians, and in what forms those contributions are likely to be.  The MCAT is only one metric used in this pseudo-scientific complex ranking (GPA, interviews, research, community involvement, etc are some other metrics useful for gauging different things).  There is no precise definition of a &quot;successful&quot; physician, because it is subjective, changes with time, and is only meaningful when compared with other physicians.  But, on a subjective level, there are many ways to be a &quot;successful&quot; physician: an accurate diagnostician, or a respected mentor, or a visionary team organizer, or a disease-curing researcher, or a skillful surgeon, or a bringer of healthcare to the poor - these are all some ways &quot;success&quot; is measured by society.  Many of these factors are orthogonal to each other, so perhaps one successful physician is strong all-around while another successful physician is especially focused in one strength.  The problem all comes back to giving the limited number of prized seats to the most deserving students - it&#039;s not a question of who has deficits and is unsuitable for the job, it&#039;s a question of who is better for the job and in what ways.  I&#039;m sure you could think of quite a few people who, when comparing apples to apples, are worse at their job than others.  The goal is simply to narrow that gap as much as possible.  At least this is just my view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: MIssy</p>
<p>The goal is not to prevent anybody from becoming physicians.  But, the reality is that there are only limited medical schools with limited seats, in the face of a vastly growing number of students applying to medical school.  The goal is to identify who would best deserve those seats, by predicting how much they are likely to contribute to medicine itself or to society if they are trained to be physicians, and in what forms those contributions are likely to be.  The MCAT is only one metric used in this pseudo-scientific complex ranking (GPA, interviews, research, community involvement, etc are some other metrics useful for gauging different things).  There is no precise definition of a &#8220;successful&#8221; physician, because it is subjective, changes with time, and is only meaningful when compared with other physicians.  But, on a subjective level, there are many ways to be a &#8220;successful&#8221; physician: an accurate diagnostician, or a respected mentor, or a visionary team organizer, or a disease-curing researcher, or a skillful surgeon, or a bringer of healthcare to the poor &#8211; these are all some ways &#8220;success&#8221; is measured by society.  Many of these factors are orthogonal to each other, so perhaps one successful physician is strong all-around while another successful physician is especially focused in one strength.  The problem all comes back to giving the limited number of prized seats to the most deserving students &#8211; it&#8217;s not a question of who has deficits and is unsuitable for the job, it&#8217;s a question of who is better for the job and in what ways.  I&#8217;m sure you could think of quite a few people who, when comparing apples to apples, are worse at their job than others.  The goal is simply to narrow that gap as much as possible.  At least this is just my view.</p>
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		<title>By: MIssy</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-changing-face-of-medical-school-admissions-restructuring-the-mcat/#comment-2527</link>
		<dc:creator>MIssy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=1615#comment-2527</guid>
		<description>What are the criteria of a successful practicing physician? What are the metrics used to gauge such a person? What is it about (some) currently practicing physicians that is lacking that leads those in charge of the MCAT to believe that the test needs to be able to predict that deficit and prevent those individuals from becoming physicians (if indeed that is the goal of the redesign)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the criteria of a successful practicing physician? What are the metrics used to gauge such a person? What is it about (some) currently practicing physicians that is lacking that leads those in charge of the MCAT to believe that the test needs to be able to predict that deficit and prevent those individuals from becoming physicians (if indeed that is the goal of the redesign)?</p>
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