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	<title>Comments on: Evidence-Based Medicine: Is American medical care based on science or politics?</title>
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	<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/</link>
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		<title>By: William Burnett</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3990</link>
		<dc:creator>William Burnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3990</guid>
		<description>In response to &quot;Blake&quot;, the title of the interview was not chosen by either Dr Berg or myself who interviewed him. It was the choice of the website&#039;s frontpage editorial staff. I suppose I would have emphasized the &quot;public policy&quot; aspects of the issue, rather than the &quot;politics&quot;.

That said, the comments of &quot;R Chaturvedi&quot; and &quot;LL&quot; are worth reading, as they will likely represent some of the &quot;political&quot; discussions of the future. Chaturvedi expresses skepticism that it is possible for Evidence Based Medicine processes not to be corrupted by economic forces. I am myself satisfied that here a large number of physician leaders and others involved in health care policy know how to prevent economic interests from subverting processes that are set up to determine whether sufficient evidence exists that a medical intervention is efficacious. In fact, the continued existence of skeptics such as Chaturvedi will keep the guardians of the processes on their toes.

&quot;LL&quot;&#039;s comments, I believe, suggest where the political debates may occur in the future. First of all, what ultimately we are talking about in both the health care reform and EBM discussions is what the government should use tax funds to pay for.

It is an even bigger issue when we bring in the issue of &quot;tax expenditures&quot; (i.e., what is deductible from, say, corporate taxes), since the employer deductions for health care plans are now part of the political debate. The discussion of taxing &quot;high cost plans&quot; could well impact some of the medical interventions that &quot;LL&quot; might wish the sub-specialists to be paid for. Such payments in an EBM world likely would require government-sponsored panels of experts deemed not to have a potential conflict of interest determine if those interventions meet EBM standards.

&quot;LL&quot; likely knows sub-specialists who, like most of their colleagues, approach their profession with the highest of integrity. Chaturvedi probably suspects that there exist relationships between some physicians and pharmaceutical and/or medical equipment manufacturers that would not pass his or her own definition of absence of economic incentives in promoting a medical intervention.

As Dr Berg himself suggested, the American health care system lags far behind the rest of the world in incorporating EBM principles into decisions as to what government will pay for. Maybe the sentiments that &quot;LL&quot; proposes will prevail in the political debate, but we will see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to &#8220;Blake&#8221;, the title of the interview was not chosen by either Dr Berg or myself who interviewed him. It was the choice of the website&#8217;s frontpage editorial staff. I suppose I would have emphasized the &#8220;public policy&#8221; aspects of the issue, rather than the &#8220;politics&#8221;.</p>
<p>That said, the comments of &#8220;R Chaturvedi&#8221; and &#8220;LL&#8221; are worth reading, as they will likely represent some of the &#8220;political&#8221; discussions of the future. Chaturvedi expresses skepticism that it is possible for Evidence Based Medicine processes not to be corrupted by economic forces. I am myself satisfied that here a large number of physician leaders and others involved in health care policy know how to prevent economic interests from subverting processes that are set up to determine whether sufficient evidence exists that a medical intervention is efficacious. In fact, the continued existence of skeptics such as Chaturvedi will keep the guardians of the processes on their toes.</p>
<p>&#8220;LL&#8221;&#8216;s comments, I believe, suggest where the political debates may occur in the future. First of all, what ultimately we are talking about in both the health care reform and EBM discussions is what the government should use tax funds to pay for.</p>
<p>It is an even bigger issue when we bring in the issue of &#8220;tax expenditures&#8221; (i.e., what is deductible from, say, corporate taxes), since the employer deductions for health care plans are now part of the political debate. The discussion of taxing &#8220;high cost plans&#8221; could well impact some of the medical interventions that &#8220;LL&#8221; might wish the sub-specialists to be paid for. Such payments in an EBM world likely would require government-sponsored panels of experts deemed not to have a potential conflict of interest determine if those interventions meet EBM standards.</p>
<p>&#8220;LL&#8221; likely knows sub-specialists who, like most of their colleagues, approach their profession with the highest of integrity. Chaturvedi probably suspects that there exist relationships between some physicians and pharmaceutical and/or medical equipment manufacturers that would not pass his or her own definition of absence of economic incentives in promoting a medical intervention.</p>
<p>As Dr Berg himself suggested, the American health care system lags far behind the rest of the world in incorporating EBM principles into decisions as to what government will pay for. Maybe the sentiments that &#8220;LL&#8221; proposes will prevail in the political debate, but we will see.</p>
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		<title>By: LL</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3989</link>
		<dc:creator>LL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3989</guid>
		<description>medicine is an art, not science.
there are few evidence, or strong evidences available to support or dispute what we do every single day as a physician.  
a lot of published guidelines basically conclude, &quot;there are no evidence to support what test or what procedure to do for a patient&quot;, therefore, a physician should resort to most basic, which is &quot;conservative&quot; management, basic medication, physical therapy, counseling.  this is exactly how obama plans to cut medical care spending, denial of reimbursement, denial of service, in the name of EBM, or what he calls, &quot;comparative effectiveness&quot;.

if you notice, most of researchers in EBM are not the clinicians at the bedside, and not specialists.  

if you are going to have EBM, guidelines, they have to be published by specialists who are currently practicing in the special field.  

if you have a family medicine guy comes up with &quot;EBM&quot; guideline on the utility of perioperative 2D transthoracic echo, they&#039;d probably say there&#039;s no evidence to support its use due to their bias against specialty care and lack of understanding in the subspecialty.  Only cardiologist and anesthesiologist who are dealing with the situation everyday are even qualified to conduct the research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>medicine is an art, not science.<br />
there are few evidence, or strong evidences available to support or dispute what we do every single day as a physician.<br />
a lot of published guidelines basically conclude, &#8220;there are no evidence to support what test or what procedure to do for a patient&#8221;, therefore, a physician should resort to most basic, which is &#8220;conservative&#8221; management, basic medication, physical therapy, counseling.  this is exactly how obama plans to cut medical care spending, denial of reimbursement, denial of service, in the name of EBM, or what he calls, &#8220;comparative effectiveness&#8221;.</p>
<p>if you notice, most of researchers in EBM are not the clinicians at the bedside, and not specialists.  </p>
<p>if you are going to have EBM, guidelines, they have to be published by specialists who are currently practicing in the special field.  </p>
<p>if you have a family medicine guy comes up with &#8220;EBM&#8221; guideline on the utility of perioperative 2D transthoracic echo, they&#8217;d probably say there&#8217;s no evidence to support its use due to their bias against specialty care and lack of understanding in the subspecialty.  Only cardiologist and anesthesiologist who are dealing with the situation everyday are even qualified to conduct the research.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3988</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3988</guid>
		<description>Does it make me cynical that I assumed from the headline that the article would be discussing whether Evidence-based medicine was itself political?  I suppose it can still be considered evidenced-based even if the evidence is garbage.

Marcia Angell, the former editor of the New England Journal wrote, &quot;Physicians can no longer rely on the medical literature for valid and reliable information.”  It makes me wonder why we want to base an entire system on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it make me cynical that I assumed from the headline that the article would be discussing whether Evidence-based medicine was itself political?  I suppose it can still be considered evidenced-based even if the evidence is garbage.</p>
<p>Marcia Angell, the former editor of the New England Journal wrote, &#8220;Physicians can no longer rely on the medical literature for valid and reliable information.”  It makes me wonder why we want to base an entire system on it.</p>
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		<title>By: William Burnett</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3987</link>
		<dc:creator>William Burnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3987</guid>
		<description>I was the interviewer of Doctor Berg, and am able to assure skeptical readers that, at least when it comes to studies by the Institute of Medicine and by the United States Department of Health and Human Services task forces that are associated with evidence-based medicine, that very rigorous processes are pursued to prevent the kinds of conflicts of interest that some of the forum participants worry might contaminate the evidence reviews. 

Any person that sits on any of these panels is subjected to an extensive review of all that person&#039;s professional and financial activities. In fact, the reason that these studies of the evidence base for a given therapy or intervention are given great weight, is that anyone who has studied what they do and how they do it will be convinced that the processes are fair, and that the participants in the process are uncontaminated by any conflict. 

All of the participants are well known to their colleagues, and their professional work is a matter of record. Failure to disclose any kind of conflict whatsoever would not only assure the removal of the miscreant from that panel, they would be unlikely to be invited to participate in any such panel in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was the interviewer of Doctor Berg, and am able to assure skeptical readers that, at least when it comes to studies by the Institute of Medicine and by the United States Department of Health and Human Services task forces that are associated with evidence-based medicine, that very rigorous processes are pursued to prevent the kinds of conflicts of interest that some of the forum participants worry might contaminate the evidence reviews. </p>
<p>Any person that sits on any of these panels is subjected to an extensive review of all that person&#8217;s professional and financial activities. In fact, the reason that these studies of the evidence base for a given therapy or intervention are given great weight, is that anyone who has studied what they do and how they do it will be convinced that the processes are fair, and that the participants in the process are uncontaminated by any conflict. </p>
<p>All of the participants are well known to their colleagues, and their professional work is a matter of record. Failure to disclose any kind of conflict whatsoever would not only assure the removal of the miscreant from that panel, they would be unlikely to be invited to participate in any such panel in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: dee</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3986</link>
		<dc:creator>dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3986</guid>
		<description>Evidence based medicine if practice offers some important benefits. Firstly, there is a dispartity in the practice of medicine in this country. Evidence based medicine will make it more likely that a patient in the bronx receive the same treatment as a patient in the suburbs of Stamford, CT. Secondly there is a tremendous amount of revenue wasted when doctors practice defensive medicine, ordering additional tests or procedures that does not help in the treatment of the patient. Evidence based medicine will address these two very important issues. However, the issue I have with evidence based medicine is who are the people who are providing the evidence. Are these people doctors being paid by pharmaceutical companies? Also evidence based medicine is dependent on clinical trials that often do not reflect the nation&#039;s diversity. Consequenly, I do not believe EBM will work for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidence based medicine if practice offers some important benefits. Firstly, there is a dispartity in the practice of medicine in this country. Evidence based medicine will make it more likely that a patient in the bronx receive the same treatment as a patient in the suburbs of Stamford, CT. Secondly there is a tremendous amount of revenue wasted when doctors practice defensive medicine, ordering additional tests or procedures that does not help in the treatment of the patient. Evidence based medicine will address these two very important issues. However, the issue I have with evidence based medicine is who are the people who are providing the evidence. Are these people doctors being paid by pharmaceutical companies? Also evidence based medicine is dependent on clinical trials that often do not reflect the nation&#8217;s diversity. Consequenly, I do not believe EBM will work for everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: R Chaturvedi</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3985</link>
		<dc:creator>R Chaturvedi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3985</guid>
		<description>seems logical but there is a problem. People (Commitees)who decide what intervention or drug is supported by EBM seahave often got conflict of interest. As in case of sepsis guidelines 2004 (Amends made in sepsis guidelines 2008) or current guidelines on use of anticoagulants in perioperative patient the absence of commercial interest is not clearly demonstrated. We have to guard against EBM being hijacked by marketin campaigns.

Peter Q. Eichacker, M.D., Charles Natanson, M.D., and Robert L. Danner, M.D.Surviving Sepsis — Practice Guidelines, Marketing Campaigns, and Eli Lilly 
NEJM Volume 355:1640-1642  October 19, 2006  Number 16</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seems logical but there is a problem. People (Commitees)who decide what intervention or drug is supported by EBM seahave often got conflict of interest. As in case of sepsis guidelines 2004 (Amends made in sepsis guidelines 2008) or current guidelines on use of anticoagulants in perioperative patient the absence of commercial interest is not clearly demonstrated. We have to guard against EBM being hijacked by marketin campaigns.</p>
<p>Peter Q. Eichacker, M.D., Charles Natanson, M.D., and Robert L. Danner, M.D.Surviving Sepsis — Practice Guidelines, Marketing Campaigns, and Eli Lilly<br />
NEJM Volume 355:1640-1642  October 19, 2006  Number 16</p>
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		<title>By: Shekar Reddi</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3984</link>
		<dc:creator>Shekar Reddi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3984</guid>
		<description>Medicine Based Evidence (MBE) is as important as Evidence Based Medicine (EBM)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Medicine Based Evidence (MBE) is as important as Evidence Based Medicine (EBM)</p>
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		<title>By: Shrikant Barve</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3983</link>
		<dc:creator>Shrikant Barve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3983</guid>
		<description>As per Ayurved, cure is based on as per Prakruti. Hot it relate to this topic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As per Ayurved, cure is based on as per Prakruti. Hot it relate to this topic?</p>
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		<title>By: PharMed2016</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3982</link>
		<dc:creator>PharMed2016</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3982</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m also very interested to see where this whole EBM is going to go in the future. This article caught my eye since this is one of the principles that they are teaching to us in class since Experience based certainty = evidence free medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also very interested to see where this whole EBM is going to go in the future. This article caught my eye since this is one of the principles that they are teaching to us in class since Experience based certainty = evidence free medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://studentdoctor.net/2009/09/evidence-based-medicine-is-american-medical-care-based-on-science-or-politics/#comment-3981</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentdoctor.net/?p=2174#comment-3981</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be interested to hear what Dr. Berg thinks about the growing number of academic medical centers offering CAM therapies like acupuncture to the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be interested to hear what Dr. Berg thinks about the growing number of academic medical centers offering CAM therapies like acupuncture to the public.</p>
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