By Jessica Freedman, MD
President of MedEdits (www.MedEdits.com)
Whenever I start working with a student who is applying to medical school “in the Caribbean,” I ask them to think about several factors. Some students who attend Caribbean medical schools earn excellent residency positions in the United States; however, prospective students should be aware that the path to becoming a physician as a Caribbean medical student poses unique challenges. As a result, graduating and earning a residency match as a Caribbean medical student requires extra focus, planning, and initiative.
There are so many Caribbean medical schools!
It is essential to realize that all Caribbean medical schools are not created equal. While several well-known Caribbean medical schools have graduated many physicians who now practice, I am always amazed by the number of “new” schools that are established. All international medical graduates must receive accreditation from the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG®); however, currently the only requirements for ECFMG certification are passing the USMLE Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS exams and having at least four credit years from a medical school listed in the International Medical Education Directory (IMED).
Don’t assume, if you are accepted to “a Caribbean medical school,” that this guarantees a residency match. Caribbean medical schools are for-profit entities and, based on my experience, some schools accept students whose backgrounds and academic records predict a likelihood of failing the USMLE Steps 1 and 2 (CK) which all students must pass before they start residency training. Caribbean medical schools will not reveal how many students enroll as first year students yet fail out and never “make it off the island” for third year rotations.
Gauging the quality of the medical education you will receive at a particular Caribbean medical school isn’t easy, but you can get an idea of how successful graduates are in obtaining residency training positions in the United States by considering several factors.
What are the school’s average USMLE Step 1 scores?
The results of the USMLE Step 1, which is taken after the preclinical years, become an extremely important factor for residency match success. Why? The USMLE Step 1 score is the only objective piece of data that program directors can use to compare medical students and residency applicants. The USMLE Step 1, which was initially designed as a qualitative test to evaluate competency, has evolved into a quantitative test, so the higher your score, the better. When I was a medical student, it was not the norm for US medical students to prepare for the USMLE by taking “prep courses.” I find that because of the technology now available, however, most students enroll in courses, often online, and are achieving high scores. A great USMLE Step 1 score will not, however, guarantee a match in the more competitive specialties. It is important to consider the other “ingredients” that lead to success.
Where do students complete third and fourth year clerkships?
It isn’t enough if a Caribbean medical school promises “rotations in US hospitals.” Prospective students should know where, specifically, students rotate, the number of students on each rotation, and the process for designing the clinical schedule. Completing a rotation in internal medicine at a hospital with an ACGME approved residency program, for example, would be considered more challenging and would most likely yield a better foundation of knowledge and skills in internal medicine than a program without this affiliation. “Academic rotations” are looked upon most favorably by residency admissions committees, and letters of reference from academic faculty also carry more weight than those from community physicians.
Some Caribbean students also complain to me that rotations are becoming too crowded; they feel they are competing for patients and procedures and are receiving little teaching. Thus, it is important to know how many students rotate at each clinical site and how many other schools also rotate through those sites since many hospitals have students rotating from several medical schools at one time.
A recent article in The New York Times outlines how New York State medical schools currently are addressing these issues by trying to limit the rotations that Caribbean medical students complete at New York hospitals. New York medical school officials are concerned that the large numbers of Caribbean students at these hospitals dilute US medical students’ education and cause rotations to be crowded. It is unclear how this “turf war” will play out; Caribbean medical schools pay hospitals large sums of money for their students to rotate. St. George’s Medical School, for example, recently signed a 10-year, $100 million contract with the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation (HHC) and sends about 1,000 students to these hospitals each year. Under New York State’s proposal, Caribbean medical students would be permitted to do only fourth elective rotations at New York hospitals, which poses special challenges that the article did not address. (Read Dr. Freedman’s published letter to the editor in response to the New York Times article.)
Does the Caribbean school encourage away electives?
Doing “away electives” at hospitals where students hope to do residency is often a key to success. Students complete away electives not only as “audition electives” but also to receive letters of reference from faculty at these programs. All international students, whether they are US citizens or not, sometimes find it difficult to obtain away electives at their “ideal” hospitals; being aware of this fact is essential for planning.
US medical students use the Visiting Students Application Service (VSAS) to obtain many away electives. Because this service is run by the Association of American Medical Colleges, Caribbean students cannot use it and therefore must apply individually to each hospital at which they want to rotate. And even if their residents are international medical graduates, many hospitals have policies that prohibit them from allowing these students to rotate. Some hospitals, including some HHC hospitals that recently contracted with St. George’s, will allow St. George’s students to rotate but won’t allow other Caribbean medical students to do rotations. Individual departments within a hospital also may have specific policies regarding international rotators. For example, one department within a hospital might allow international students to rotate while another might not. Therefore, it may require a tremendous amount of persistence for Caribbean medical students to obtain away rotations, and students should start seeking out information regarding which hospitals accept international medical students as rotators when they choose their desired specialty.
Where do the Caribbean school’s students match?
The be all and end all indicator of success is a medical school’s match list, many of which are published on schools’ websites. But, interpret these lists carefully. First of all, you want to know what percentage of graduating fourth year students obtain categorical matches. Why is this significant? Preliminary positions are only one year and do not guarantee a specialty match or board eligibility. Categorical positions, on the other hand, are specialty matches and do guarantee board eligibility. Many published school lists do not distinguish between preliminary versus categorical matches. One major Caribbean medical school recently disclosed at a faculty meeting that 15% of its graduating students did not obtain categorical positions last year. This information, is not easy to obtain, however, and for obvious reasons schools rarely disclose this raw data to prospective students and their parents.
How do US citizen IMGs perform nationally?
It is also essential to review the national data to see how US citizen IMGs fare in the match. In the past, the National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) released data that divided applicants into only two categories: US seniors and independent applicants, which limited interpretation of this data (See Charting outcomes in the match). Recently, however, the NRMP has started to further categorize this data, clarifying how each group performs. There is now a category for “US Citizen IMGs” and, even though this includes all US citizen international graduates, a large number of this group are Caribbean students.
The number of active US citizen IMGs in the 2010 Match was 3,695, which is 1,260 more than five years ago; 1,749 were matched to PGY-1 positions, down 0.5 percentage points from last year. (Resource: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf) This data may be misleading, however, since it is not clear how many of these 3,695 students received “prematch” offers and therefore did not go through the match. Only international medical students and international medical graduates can accept “prematch” offers; US medical students cannot receive prematch offers.
Reviewing this data further, most US citizen IMGs match in internal medicine and family medicine; it is extremely difficult to match in competitive specialties. In 2010, for example, only one US citizen IMG matched in plastic surgery, otolaryngology, and dermatology. (Resource: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf)
Looking Ahead
The ECFMG announced that, effective in 2023, all applicants and physicians “will need to graduate from a medical school that has been appropriately accredited” to receive ECFMG certification. This means that the medical school will need to be accredited through the Liaison Committee on Medical Education or other organizations such as the World Federation for Medical Education (WFME). Physicians must be ECFMG certified to take the USMLE Step 3 and to obtain an unrestricted license to practice medicine in the United States. Therefore, holding Caribbean and all international medical schools to higher standards will force schools to create curriculums that lead to better medical educations and graduates’ success.
Dr. Jessica Freedman, a former emergency medicine associate residency director and medical school admissions member at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, is president of MedEdits Medical Admissions. MedEdits offers advising and professional editing for applicants to medical school, residency, fellowship, and post baccalaureate and special master’s programs. Like MedEdits on Facebook.
For profit diploma mills shouldn’t be allowed to take our financial aid dollars for a substandard product. They also shouldn’t be given any priority in gme or med school rotations. The author is mistaken that we owe anything to the education of these for profit mills as a society.
I’ll take American grads or highly trained foreign grads only, thanks!
Well it sound like you are a female of minority descent. I on the other hand live in the cruel unforgiving world of white males where we are not allowed to go to US medical schools without flawless records. Pure and simple I am leaving the country to go to medical school because of my sex and skin color. My scores are not low either. They just aren’t high enough to compete for the few spots reserved for white males. I have to go to the caribbean not because I don’t qualify for US medical schools, but because I am not wanted due to the color of my skin and what lies beneath my clothes. I’m not looking to argue the point. I just think that it should be addressed. Also, I don’t even need student aid. I can pay my own way, but unfortunately that also puts me at a disadvantage due to the fact my family background wasn’t economically difficult enough. Why this matters in the admissions process I have no idea. There are only three things that are needed to make a good doctor: intelligence/knowledge, compassion, and solid problem-solving skills.
Mike – you sound like the guy who is going to use affirmative action to justify going to sub-par school in the Caribbean. I love it when white male pulls out a racism card. Truth be told – you were simply not good enough. I went to an Ivy league for my undergrad, went to a public high school outside of DC, worked hard, am fairly smart and I am now going to med school at Columbia. (I meant Columbia University) – I don’t want Mike to think it was somewhere south again and relate to me. You are not smart enough, or were not willing to put in the hard work. Which is why you will probably only end up getting a residency only as a general physician in a fairly shitty hospital. Caribbean schools are institutions that open back doors into our profession. Mike bought himself a medical degree – very different that actually getting one.
Regardless of where someone attended medical school, they will never be able to legally see a patient in the U.S. without first completing residency in the U.S. and passing multiple certification and accreditation exams. Accusing physicians who are Board Eligible or Board Certified of being substandard or incompetent simply because they attended a school in the Caribbean only fuels the incorrect characterization that they are incompetent and “paid” for their diploma without achieving a level of competence that renders them safe or qualified to treat people within their specialty. Regardless of where someone obtained their M.D. or D.O., if they’ve successfully completed an accredited American residency (especially if they’ve obtained Board Certification) and hold a license to practice, they are every bit as qualified to practice their profession as physicians who graduated from U.S. medical schools.
Well said Mike, the US has a process to keep the bad doctors (wherever they go to school) from practicing medicine. The certifications and residency requirements are there for a reason, to make sure the doctors know what they are doing/
Caribs or wtf is your name….It is quite obvious from your comments you are very mean and undereducated individual. You donot know any thing about caribbean schools and should try to educate yourself. There are many for profit schools in the US that’s what ‘PRIVATE’ schools are….Not because of these schools are classified as ‘Not for profit’ means that they do not make profits….In fact, I am a medical student currently rotating in New York City and I am quite familiar with the rectoric that is fueling this nonsense about caribbean students are taking away rotations from american schools…This is so because a couple of american medical students found out that many of the caribbean students that they were rotating with had higher boards scores than most of them and the following week many of the new york medical students suddenly started complainting about not getting enough patients and rotation time. I don’t believe caribbean schools are to blame because there many hospitals in New York City and if there is a problem with the amount of students in any one rotations the regulatory agency or the hospital could set a standard. NYCHHC knew how many students they were accepting when they signed contracts with SGU and Ross and other caribbean schools so if NY medical students want to complaint they can do it to the NYCHHC or stop being jealous and study hard and get higher board scores.
D.O.s can take pre-match offers from the ACGME match
An article regarding Caribbean medical schools should differentiate “offshore” schools from the regal University of the West Indies. Graduates from this prestigious institution don’t just match, they become Broad of Trustees members, Deans and Department Chairs.
Reference: Google.com
Actually “Mr Garvey” UWI students have a near impossible time matching in the US. Why? Because the school is Caribbean minded. They prepare their students to work in the Caribbean and perhaps the UK. Take a quick look at their syllabus and you’ll see. They don’t prepare their students for the USMLE and they don’t do their clinical rotations in the US. That’s two of the most important benefits of the other Caribbean med schools; they’re preparing students to come back to the US, not stay in the Caribbean. Don’t get me wrong UWI is a great school -if you plan on staying in the Caribbean. For UWI grads to obtain US residencies they would have to complete the USMLE- all steps and they’ll need US doctors to recommend them for said residencies. Thus UWI grads would have to go the ‘observership’ route which is not always easy to get. This would allow them to get the necessary exposure to US hospitals and their treatment protocols. When Americans refer to Caribbean Med School they’re thinking about UWI because it’s not catering to the needs of American students who ultimately plan to go back and practice in the US. So please don’t get offended by the opinions of other people about Caribbean schools, because I can guarantee you UWI is not one of the schools they’re referring to.
*they’re not thinking about UWI*
all of these diploma mill med schools in the caribbean should be shut down and their graduates should be stripped of their degree.
im sick of all the trash from the caribbean coming to my hospitals in the us
Caribbean schools are nothing more than diploma mills which rob the US taxpayers of student loan funds and ruin lives. When your school’s top match is LSU-Lafayette Family Practice, you know you’re a worthless place.
Seriously, who wants to spend >300k to get a fake M.D. degree based on USMLE prep courses and “clinical rotations” in the NYC area which amount to nothing more than an observership?
Why is anyone listening to this lady who wrote this article, anyway? Let’s get a REALITY check and have one of the unemployed, unmatched carib grads write an article about “how great” the caribbean “schools” are.
Student loans are by definitions loans that are paid back with interest by Caribbean medical graduates. I fail to understand the robbing part.
Being a Caribbean medical graduate requires the same amount of years of training, study and work ( 6+ years after an undergraduate degree). Anyone off the street cannot pass the USMLE without a significant amount of effort.
An individual who did not do well in the Caribbean is not representative of the majority of students who work incredibly hard during their education.
If you worked incredibly hard during your education, you wouldn’t be in a Caribbean medical school in the first place. If you did work incredible hard during your education and still couldn’t get into an American med school, you just aren’t cut out for it. You aren’t entitled to being a doctor.
Im a carib student, currently studying for step 1, I was unable to get into a U.S. school but still wanted a medical degree and hopefully someday have a career in medical research, I dont get any loans and would be happy completing a residency in the worthless hospitals you refer to, and continue hopefully into a fellowship program whether you think that program is worthless as well, and hopefully one day maybe pursue a PhD. So now that you understand my goals and story, why in the world would you get mad about someone like me just pursuing my career goals, even though the path isn’t ideal for me, but since Im willing to do it, is that OK with you? Or does the fact that my undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores were not as good as yours, I will never be as smart or successful as yourself?
Then you should have worked harder to get a better UGPA and MCAT score. You’re not entitled to being a doctor.
Really you dont think? Well thanks for letting me know so I can talk with my family about a different career.
I knew there is a DIRECT correlation between you’re grade in Organic Chemistry and how good of a Physician you are. Especially surgeons, I mean i wouldnt let anybody operate on me without knowing what they got on their MCAT.
Now all kidding aside i am curious, do you really, genuinely feel as though I should not be allowed to be a doctor because my MCAT score was not quite high enough?
I’m not trying to be funny Im actually curious if that is what you think or if you are just a tool who thinks hes the man.
John,
Everyone knows that without being about to draw an aldol condensation there is no way to be a capable physician (sarcasm)
I am a caribbean grad, now ABIM certified. And eligble to take boards in a subspecialty. None of my patients have had or will have a problem with me being there doc.
The best thing to do is to educated the public about us “caribb grads” And yes we are US citizens who pay taxes (a lot) and so we should get all the aid we can from tax payers.
It is important to distinguish between Caribbean Medical Schools that have rigorous entrance standards – AUC, Ross and St. Georges – and those that do not. The vast majority of Carib Med Schools recruit and retain students who have little hope of gaining a residency. Lumping schools together blurs the distinction between schools that offer professional education and adequate facilities with those opened in abandonded tire shops and shopping malls. The most important question to ask however is why these schools exist at all. What failure of American medical education forces otherwise qualified students offshore to face unknown conditions of study and uncertain futures, when the professional education within the States nearly guarantees success. If Caribbean medical schools are really the equivalent of US schools, they could simply relocate. Because the three schools above do offer decent possibilities, they mask inadequate schools that lure students into their businesses since little distinction is drawn between these schools. I agree with hard beef. Caribbean schools should be forced to comply with LCME accreditation requirements now, which would in essence shut them down. Permitting them to operate for another 12 years will simply perpetuate a system that permits unscrupulous businessmen to fleece unsuspecting, naive or self-deluded students by the thousands.
Windsor University School of Medicine (WUSM) in St Kitts is the WORST medical school in the Caribbean. It is also known as Windsor Medical School and is a school filled with drug dealers, p0rn stars, strlppers, alcoholics, and drug addicts. It only has an 18% pass rate on the USMLE Step 1, so that means 88% of its medical students fail and never become doctors. Only 2% out of its thousands of students have ever attained a residency. Even if you fail the USMLE Step 1 multiple times, you can still finish 3rd and 4th year rotations at the hospitals. That’s ridiculous! In fact that university has no admissions or screening process. Anyone with a pulse is admitted. Students never even attend college or take the MCAT exam and are still let into the school. They don’t even do background checks at this school, they take everyone that applies, which explains all the criminals at the school. Just google Pauline Wiltshire, Dalevir Pannu, and Toto Kaiyewu. The entire university consists of a bunch of 18 year olds who drink, party, have sex, fight, and end up in jail. The university has no school email account nor do they have any class schedules. How on earth can you be a medical student if there are no schedules or any exam dates? The only way to learn about upcoming activities is through facebook. Your credits won’t even transfer to another caribbean medical school. Dr. Srinivas Gaddam who is the dean of the school is also a drug dealer and a criminal coke dealer and has severe anger management issues. He threw a desk at a male medical student who challenged him. If you fail all your classes at Windsor, you get to continue on and not have to repeat anything. If you fail your USMLE Step 1 or Step 2 even 20 times, you are still allowed to stay in the school and move on to 3rd year and 4th year. That’s terrifying! Honestly, Windsor University School of Medicine will be shutting down soon.
I know couple of people who did not meet the match for residency in March 2011 and few had applied for the second time and got denied. I can understand a person who was denied the first time trying again, but what about the person that was denied the second time, go for the third or study something else? Waiting a year is long enough, I can’t imagine what goes in the minds of those who had re-applied and got denied the second or third time. If a person can’t get a residency after 2 or 3 attempts what good is the degree? It’s a worthless degree. The pain of the medical student feeling like a complete failure and the money lost to a worthless degree and coming back home feeling horrible.
The problem with the Caribbean Medical Schools is they accept students who have no chance of graduating or being competitive for the match. It’s about collecting the fees from the students and letting them deal with their problems or challenges. It is about profit. It could spare a lot of pain, dollars, and such if the these institutions be rigorous in their admission process so that qualified people can compete for medical school seats so they can be prepared for the obstacles that they will face for clinical, residencies and fellowships. One thing, I like about US medical schools is that they are tough in the selection process, I do agree there aren’t many seats for the number of qualified people, but seriously if a person has low grades and low MCATs or average scores do not get into a US medical school. They are given a thin letter that says rejection. Seriously, people who do not have competitive marks should not go into medicine because the chances of passing the tests and such are slim. It’s better to get a degree in something else.
As far residencies, they are becoming very competitive it has to do with the number of applicants from US medical schools having more seats, new MD/DO schools, foreign medical students, and people who are making a career change and deciding to go into medicine. I expect a lot of people not making the match because there aren’t many slots for residencies in the US added there are too much competition. Even the US medical students must be aware that if there scores aren’t high, then expect a Caribbean or foreign or US medical student attaining that spot. The competition is fierce and they will be challenges for many in order to become a licensed doctor. I expect 2012 match to be more challenging than this year’s. If a person is pressured into becoming a doctor, then do something else, if you have low marks and MCAT scores really consider doing something else then heading of to the Caribbean. Any person that seriously wants to become a doctor must do a lot research online, talking to other doctors or medical school people, and more. Don’t believe all the stats that are said about certain schools and what they say especially these profit schools or Caribbean schools that tend the exaggerate.
Research a lot before applying to medical schools and be prepared of any roadblocks.
I went to an Open House for one of the Top 3 Caribbean Schools in one of the cities in the US and this was in the year 2004. I was impressed with the presentation show, speakers, and all. The event was packed with people that many people had to stand. The speakers and medical students graduates made it seem that going to medical school at this school was better than attending a US medical school. It had given me an impression that if you had a bachelors degree and decent MCAT scores that you will be enrolled into their school and will become a medical doctor. The speakers talked about their experiences and the residencies that they had and what other students gotten in. They had one speaker who went to Harvard for dermatology. To me, it didn’t seem that going to Caribbean was a bad idea if a person wanted to badly become a doctor. Since average grades and scores seem alright for admissions to accept students.
At the end, of the event I spoke with my family member about the event, but I had decided to pursue another branch of science that was my primary choice. I was impressed by this school and their students though. In 2008, I researched about medical schools and the process because I saw more people that I knew heading to medical schools in general. I researched online and gotten feedback from students from medical students in the US and Caribbean. I realized that the school that I went to the Open House in 2004, did not talk about the extra hurdles realistically that a student would face and that their was no guarantee of a residency spot in the US. This school has a website of their students who had matched or gotten pre-matched through the affiliated hospitals, but does not show the actual statistics of how many students entered into the medical program for that year and follow up of how many had gotten a residency successfully. There are no specific statistics of this, which it makes people believe that most are obtaining the residencies. I had read many articles about medical schools and caribbean schools and I have a new perspective about medical school.
The problem is in 2004, I was given that impression that anyone with decent scores can become a doctor if studying at the Caribbean. I realized recently that there are people who get scooped up into thinking they will become doctors and there are many who don’t become doctors. They come home with debt and strike out in the first year or unable to get a residency and give up after 2 attempts or 3 and with massive debt.
I really hope that US has stringent requirements that really test whether a person is doctor material or not. It’s not only for foreign medical students, but everyone. It scary that institutions take students with no Mcat’s or low or average MCAT’s and its about profit. I really feel that US in general allows these shady schools to collect US dollars and leave the student as a victim. For example, in US there are many for-profit schools like University of Phoenix, Westwood College, shady online programs, and others that scam students and military people who think their time, effort, and money will pay off. These profit schools are like leeches that suck the money from the students and usually the students end up having debt to their eyeballs and not getting a degree or education that they truly deserve. I feel that Caribbean schools have become a big business and they have made a lot from their marketing and all. How many students did not graduate medical schools and got scammed from them? How many students dropped out after not getting residencies from multiple tries? People need to research a lot before considering of going to a school. Go to a reputable school and that will help you succeed in your dreams whatever that may be.
I’m not through school yet but am attending a caribbean medical school. People who think the US school admittance procedure is better is simply retarded. GPA’s are meaningless! While the MCAT is a good indicator the kids going to the US schools take prep classes for the MCAT, exactly how they complain about people in caribbean schools taking prep classes for the USMLE. The question really is who makes the best doctors? The best doctor is the one who’s doing the job they want to do. The elitism in the US medical system hurts the people that we as doctors should care about most, the patient. Why is derm so hard to get into? Because it is harder then being a surgeon? Or is it because they make 400k+ a year with weekends off and no on call? I know capable students that are terrible at standardized tests and failed out of school, I also know horrible students that I pray fail their steps, I know amazing students that I would take over any US student yet they are going to a caribbean school because of this horrible elitism that exists at all levels of the medical educational system.
Fewer US medical students take prep classes. There is no time for prep classes.
“People who think the US school admittance procedure is better is simply retarded. GPA’s are meaningless! “
LOL
A lot of uneducated people commenting on this. This includes Carib, Sandy, and Hard Beef. They are either US med students who lost their places to carib med students and are venting it out or they are members of the uneducated public (probably with only high school degree) who have no idea what they are talking about. Another possibility is that they are all one idiot person who logged on 3 times on different names.
Many foreign schools are incompetent and don’t give adequate training, but I think we should soon differentiate Carib/Canadian/Aus/UK med schools from the rest of the world med schools. Sure they are not as great as US Schools, but knowing a friend who went to St George and for me going to one of the worse MD schools in the US, I think St George edges Meharry and probably a lot of other low tier US schools out. Hell, when we left college with degrees from COllege of Bio Sciences, I had a 3.5, and he had a 2.8 (never studied and always partied in undergrad). MCAT wise I had a 32M and he he had a 31Q. Somehow he got a 240 on the USMLE and i got the average 210. I don’t know about the rest of people in his school, but I definetely regard him as an intelligent guy. Maybe its because of my friend, but I look at fellow Carib doctors as people who were party animals in college or that went through hard personal times (yes i judge people). I do not look at them as dumber, because from personal experience they are about the same level as me in knowledge of medicine. I’m pretty sure Caribs look at US MDs as people who were nerds all their life and who never had fun, but oh well. Key thing is, we all live in the United States, the number 1 country in the world. You really think the US is stupid enough to admit people from other countries as doctors when they aren’t competent? To all you people posting, do you have any idea how the NRMP matching goes and how hard it is to get into many residencies? I suggest if you don’t know, then shut your mouth, because anybody who has worked with doctors from anywhere in the world in the same field know that these guys know their stuff, otherwise they wouldn’t have got the residencies that you got (unless both you and them are dumbarses)
Interesting article… To those who are bashing Caribbean medical schools and graduates, remember we are paying our loans back and are not stripping any taxpayer from their money. There is no financial aid or loans that we don’t have to pay back. All loans are to be paid back. In the Caribbean, we have to study harder and prepared far better than a US medical school to compete for the same residency program and position. Enoug is enough and stop this double standard labeling Caribbean grads as incompetent and not being good physicians.
Interesting article, but I don’t think people should get so worked up over it. I’m a Caribbean Medical student and I recieved a pretty good education and my USMLE 1 score was above the U.S. national average. Personally I don’t think its wise to go on with who is better or worse etc. Its really an individual call. Some kids at my school were terrible students and others weren’t. Some schools have lots of issues I agree. Its up to the student to really assess this and leave if they don’t feel the quality is there. No big deal really. Lets just keep chuggin along and provide good healthcare to our country regardless of of where we trained. Talk is cheap. Its better to reserve conversation and show what you can do.
I think this is a good statement, some U.S. students are pretty harsh, when they really dont know the education or experience of the caribbean. They just know what they read online somewhere. But it is understandable to some degree I guess, but they are a bit extreme, esp since you cant be a doctor in the U.S. unless u pass exams required. So the requirement is the same, i think it would be different if IMG’s took a different test or something but we have to pass the same minimum requirements as everyone else. But the truth is if u keep chugging along soon the voices of those few toolbags seem to fade I think.
Ok so i am considering going to a Caribbean Medical school and I was doing some research and came up on this article. Does anyone have any inside knowledge on UMHS in St. Kitts. I know its not one of the big 4 but I was thinking about applying to it. Any thoughts on my chances of geting into a residency program? passing the USMLE? etc.
Yeah, if you want to be a doctor, dont let anyone say you cant, because there are many reasons why its hard but its not where you start, its where you finish, i dont know much about that school, but im sure you could do it if you work hard.
I don’t understand where are you guys going with this. Just because someone graduated from a Caribbean medical school it doesn’t mean they aren’t as smart or as dedicated as US med students. The average MCAT score for “some” US medical schools is in the 22-24 range, believe it or not!! Meharry, Morehouse, Howard, New Mexico just to name a few.
The Average MCAT score for the best Caribbean medical schools in 26-27!! And here I’m specifically talking about St.Georges and AUC, and the same goes for GPA.
Also what kills many Caucasians in US med school applications (I am ONE), is the minority preference that is given to African Americans and Hispanics. I know people getting into top US med schools with sub 30 MCATs. So, when med school admission committees consider skin color when offering acceptances, know that your healthcare is in going downhill.
OMG THANK YOU FOR BEING A REALIST!
I work in a hospital in Dallas and will be attending med school next year. You say the preference given to blacks and hispanics is wrong. I sstrongly disagree! Ive been working at hospitals since the age of 17. The number of white docs outnumber ALL other docs by the truck load. Its a known stat that docs will go back and contribute to their OWN racial community. Thus, we need a good variety of docs not just privileged white kids. I dont expect you to understand because you are, after all,……..white. We arent incompetent doctors. We still have to be just as smart as the next white applicant
Future Doc makes a strong argument Alfred. I am an African American Surgeon and my patients do not care what my skin color is. They want the smartest possible surgeon operating on them. I respect your opinions and feeling towards diversity in this profession but at the end of the day we have patients lives to account for… save that Affirmative Action bs for the business world.
I have read a lot of comments regarding medical schools, especially those in the caribbean. I strongly believe that the accredition board in the US provides a benchmark that sets the standard and allows only medical schools that meet the set creteria to pass through.
There are good medical schools in the caribbean. Aspiring students need to research the school before making a move.
People should also be free to make their opinion knwon especially those who have suffered in the hands of caribbean medical schools.
Thank you.
bottom line for any medical student has got to be “healthcare of the highest calibre”.
what difference does it make whether you qualified in Timbuctu ? –as long as you pass USA requirements –if you want to make a life in USA ???
there’s always going to be the “clever ones’ and the “get by” ones in all societies !
As long as an individual does his job with integrity, passion and a true love for “saving life” does it matter whether the “outsider” outsmarts a US med. student ?? i think not.
Everybody in life has a different timeline when they are going to be at their best, their peak, whether you came from harvard or timbuctu !!!!
Your own drive determines your achievments. period.
dont knock others for your own failings
The amount of misinformation about Caribbean schools is ridiculous on both sides of the argument. There are Carib schools that grossly misrepresent themselves to prospective students, and there are U.S. doctors/students/hospitals that vehemently discriminate against Caribbean graduates who are in many cases just as qualified (and sometimes more qualified) as any US educated doctor. I am currently a Caribbean student about to finish basic science at one of the more highly regarded island institutions. I am offended by the very idea that anyone would call my school a diploma mill. I (and those of my classmates still left) have NEVER worked so hard to earn a degree (and to the individual who will tell me I should have worked harder in undergrad: My family is poor so I paid for undergrad myself by working full time and going to school, a stupid decision that left me with a 2.7GPA that not even a 32 MCAT could fix. So yes, I should have worked harder at school instead of putting so much effort into paying for it). While admissions to Caribbean schools may be more lax than those of American institutions, at my university the actual program is far more rigorous and unforgiving than the admissions standards would leave you to believe. Of the 110 students that started, 65 are left from my original class. The rest have either succumbed to the school’s strict academic policy (if you fail 2 classes you are expelled, if you fail one class you repeat it and get put on academic probation for 2 semesters), or transferred to another school that was less academically demanding/less stressful. At my university we are fighting to GET our diplomas. The school does anything but hand them out like candy. At the end of basic science, the students who have made it through this crucible of a program sit for the same Step1 board exam as the U.S. students (and, not surprising after all that culling of students over 5 semesters, we generally score on par or better than the US testers). LASTLY, my school is not entitled to US federal loans because it was opened in 1986 and did not get grandfathered into the Title IV legislation. This means I am STILL paying for my own education, not dollar one of taxpayer money has helped me get here. So let’s recount: I scored above average on the US standardized MCAT exam, I go to a school with ridiculous academic expectations that weed out the students incapable of passing the US standardized board exams, I get no government handouts and worked my tail off to self fund this whole venture. Still think I am unqualified to be in the same rotation as a US grad? Yes, there are trashy diploma mills down here with individuals incapable of achieving anything close to a passing score on a board exam, but there are also very good schools with motivated, hard working, passionate, intelligent people, who want nothing more than to genuinely EARN an M.D. and be a good doctor. Don’t discriminate because you see “Caribbean” on the white coat, until you get all the facts.
What Carib school are you currently enrolled in?
I didn’t get into a US medical school with a 35 mcat, also graduating from an ivy league school with a B gpa. It was rough learning that i’d have been better off being the big fish in a little pond at a smaller school where i could have gotten a 3.8-4.0 and actually been considered. But, since my Caribbean medical school at least considered me, I was given a chance. I just pulled a 260 on my Step I, 40 points and 2 standard deviations above the US national average. I’d like to talk to the person telling me I’m going to be a mediocre doctor because of the location of my school. I’d be more concerned with why, if people like me are being rejected as the low end of applicants, the US national average isn’t at least 250.
Hey Bricky,
If you don’t mind me asking – where did you earn your MD? I am in a similar spot (waitlisted at two schools currently) and I don’t want to waste more time with this horrendous process, and I don’t think that DO is for me.
I am considering applying to SGU.
Holy crap, Mike.
How horrible did you do in school that you have to fear a minority taking your spot?
Thank you for such a decent post, the content is great on this site!
Caribbean medical schools