How difficult will it be to match competitively from a T100

[swagman786]

Hi,

I've been recently accepted at Brody School of Medicine (ECU). I'm trying to plan what I need to do for the next for years in order to be a competitive applicant

I know matching itself isn't easy. Looking at the match lists from the past couple of years, I noticed not a lot of students were going into competitive IM residencies or RADS. Most kids seem to match in NC, which makes sense because the school only accepts NC residents.

I was wondering if going to ECU would make it impossible to match in a top IM residency or Anesthesia or ENT. Currently interested in either Cards, Anesthesia, or ENT. Really interested in moving out of NC for residency (California, NYC, or any city) and want to see if my chances of doing that would be diminished going to a school like ECU.

Thank you

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[xffan624]

Hi,

I've been recently accepted at Brody School of Medicine (ECU). Currently on the waitlist for UNC, but I'm trying to plan what I need to do just in case I don't get off the waitlist.

I know matching itself isn't easy. Looking at the match lists from the past couple of years, I noticed not a lot of students were going into competitive IM residencies or RADS. Most kids seem to match in NC, which makes sense because the school only accepts NC residents.

I was wondering if going to ECU would make it impossible to match in a top IM residency or Anesthesia or ENT. Currently interested in either Cards, Anesthesia, or ENT. Really interested in moving out of NC for residency (California, NYC, or any city) and want to see if my chances of doing that would be diminished going to a school like ECU.

Thank you

You can't actually match to a competitive residency if you don't get into medical school. Assuming there's not some "it' factor like a major publication incoming or some other significant accomplishment (or you completely screwed the pooch on your application this cycle through your PS, applying too late, etc), you're not going to be more competitive next year. Will it more difficult to match at a top tier IM residency with ECU than some other hypothetical school? Maybe. Impossible? Probably not. Can you actually get into said hypothetical school that would make it easier (and what does your current application cycle say about your likelihood that you will be even in the running for uber-competitive residencies when match time comes around regardless of school choice?). Is this all a moot point if you change your mind in 3 years about moving out of NC and/or your specialty choice? You certainly can leave NC and I'm sure you know that and there's a wide range of IM residencies and competitiveness in places you might desire to go to. Lots of very esoteric questions here and I think you would be foolish to throw away something most applicants would love to have based on hypotheticals.

 

[swagman786]

You can't actually match to a competitive residency if you don't get into medical school. Assuming there's not some "it' factor like a major publication incoming or some other significant accomplishment (or you completely screwed the pooch on your application this cycle through your PS, applying too late, etc), you're not going to be more competitive next year. Will it more difficult to match at a top tier IM residency with ECU than some other hypothetical school? Maybe. Impossible? Probably not. Can you actually get into said hypothetical school that would make it easier (and what does your current application cycle say about your likelihood that you will be even in the running for uber-competitive residencies when match time comes around regardless of school choice?). Is this all a moot point if you change your mind in 3 years about moving out of NC and/or your specialty choice? You certainly can leave NC and I'm sure you know that and there's a wide range of IM residencies and competitiveness in places you might desire to go to. Lots of very esoteric questions here and I think you would be foolish to throw away something most applicants would love to have based on hypotheticals.

Sorry, I think there was some confusion. I'm going to Brody. I'm not going to reapply. I was just wondering what my chances would be from ECU since I know the match list isn't as good as UNC. I was also wondering what I'd have to do to match in those specialties. I know research and a good step 2 score are necessary. Thank you in advance...

 

[xffan624]

Sorry, I think there was some confusion. I'm going to Brody. I'm not going to reapply. I was just wondering what my chances would be from ECU since I know the match list isn't as good as UNC. I was also wondering what I'd have to do to match in those specialties. I know research and a good step 2 score are necessary. Thank you in advance...

Glad to hear. It's not much different than what you have to do at UNC. I'm not an expert on that as it was never my aspiration, but I went to an unranked MD school and one of my classmates went to Mass Gen IM so it's possible. I don't know what her scores were (I assume they were good). But she was an awesome person all around and I'm sure she rocked her clinical rotations and got glowing LORs.

 

[eteshoe]

Sorry, I think there was some confusion. I'm going to Brody. I'm not going to reapply. I was just wondering what my chances would be from ECU since I know the match list isn't as good as UNC. I was also wondering what I'd have to do to match in those specialties. I know research and a good step 2 score are necessary. Thank you in advance...

Duke or UNC are not beyond your reach coming from Brody. You'll have to really grind though - get plugged into whatever specialty group and seek mentors early esp for things like ENT (super small field). For specialties like IM/cards and anesthesia there tends to be plenty of faculty so you can ease your way into ramping up projects or whatnot.

Most important thing though is take your first semester to just focus on learning how to study in the madness that is med school. Once you have a system down, then reach out to faculty (and residents/fellows) to first shadow and then work on projects, etc. Good study habits early pay dividends in the future and allow you to have more bandwidth to take on all you have to do if matching at a competitive program and/or specialty is a priority.

 

[swagman786]

Duke or UNC are not beyond your reach coming from Brody. You'll have to really grind though - get plugged into whatever specialty group and seek mentors early esp for things like ENT (super small field). For specialties like IM/cards and anesthesia there tends to be plenty of faculty so you can ease your way into ramping up projects or whatnot.

Most important thing though is take your first semester to just focus on learning how to study in the madness that is med school. Once you have a system down, then reach out to faculty (and residents/fellows) to first shadow and then work on projects, etc. Good study habits early pay dividends in the future and allow you to have more bandwidth to take on all you have to do if matching at a competitive program and/or specialty is a priority.

Okay thank you for this! I saw the past couple years some students will match Hopkins (Top 5 I think?) for IM. Other than step 2 what do you think really gives someone the ability to match there?

 

[swagman786]

Also really confused about ranking. I understand ECU is a primary care focused school based out of NC so most students will want to pursue primary care in NC, but when I look at schools that are unranked like Creighton, they seem to have a "better" match list even though Brody is higher ranked?

 

[xffan624]

Also really confused about ranking. I understand ECU is a primary care focused school based out of NC so most students will want to pursue primary care in NC, but when I look at schools that are unranked like Creighton, they seem to have a "better" match list even though Brody is higher ranked?

Interpreting match lists and correlating school quality using ranking beyond gross generalities is a fool's errand. Some unranked schools are unranked by choice because they don't want to play the game. Mine was for while, 'till the new dean decided to enter the rat race.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Also really confused about ranking. I understand ECU is a primary care focused school based out of NC so most students will want to pursue primary care in NC, but when I look at schools that are unranked like Creighton, they seem to have a "better" match list even though Brody is higher ranked?

Because match lists don’t really tell you anything. A school like ECU will inherently have more In state primary care matches because of the students they recruit, ie in state people who are highly likely to pursue those spots.

 

[whatisanmcat]

I'm a current M1 at Brody and I can understand where you are coming from, but I think you are going at it with the wrong mindset. For instance, in this year's match list for IM, we have someone going to Duke and another going to WakeMed (not WFU). A top 10 vs. a place that has a significant portion of its residents coming from the Caribbean. What does that mean?...It is much much more on the individual student and how much work you put in during med school.

 

[Just D.O. it]

I was wondering if going to ECU would make it impossible to match in a top IM residency or Anesthesia or ENT. Currently interested in either Cards, Anesthesia, or ENT.

As a USMD, your schools specific rank will not be a big factor in being able to match (eventually) cards or anesthesia. They are both very doable as an average student who is willing to study their ass off for boards.

ENT is one of the more hellishly competitive matches, and one would obviously be more secure in having that aspiration from a top school. But, given that it doesn’t seem like you have the option of going to a top school, your best option for that is also just putting in the work (acquiring as many pubs as possible, making damn sure there are no black marks on your transcript or MSPE, crushing STEP 2, getting as many Honors as possible, and maximally brown-nosing your local ENT PD.)

 

[swagman786]

I'm a current M1 at Brody and I can understand where you are coming from, but I think you are going at it with the wrong mindset. For instance, in this year's match list for IM, we have someone going to Duke and another going to WakeMed (not WFU). A top 10 vs. a place that has a significant portion of its residents coming from the Caribbean. What does that mean?...It is much much more on the individual student and how much work you put in during med school.

Thank you for this. I apologize for being neurotic. You’re right there were individuals matching at Duke and Hopkins this year so it’s not impossible and lies on the student to perform well on exams, step, rotations, as well as to get research.

 

[eteshoe]

Okay thank you for this! I saw the past couple years some students will match Hopkins (Top 5 I think?) for IM. Other than step 2 what do you think really gives someone the ability to match there?

Publications (look at the NRMP match outcomes to see median #'s), networking (local, national, and if possible international conferences, workshops, etc), doing well during m3 (Mostly Honors or HPs esp in surgery if your school uses those scales), crush your sub-I's, get strong LoRs

 

[swagman786]

As a USMD, your schools specific rank will not be a big factor in being able to match (eventually) cards or anesthesia. They are both very doable as an average student who is willing to study their ass off for boards.

ENT is one of the more hellishly competitive matches, and one would obviously be more secure in having that aspiration from a top school. But, given that it doesn’t seem like you have the option of going to a top school, your best option for that is also just putting in the work (acquiring as many pubs as possible, making damn sure there are no black marks on your transcript or MSPE, crushing STEP 2, getting as many Honors as possible, and maximally brown-nosing your local ENT PD.)

Yeah I figured ENT would be really hard but not impossible. I think 4 people matched ENT from Brody this year.

Honestly I don’t even know if I want to do ENT, I scribed for a while and the clinic is boring but the lifestyle is so good. I just didn’t want it to be off the table.

Thank you for the advice. I’ll be sure to connect with people after the first semester and really just work my butt off.

 

[swagman786]

Publications (look at the NRMP match outcomes to see median #'s), networking (local, national, and if possible international conferences, workshops, etc), doing well during m3 (Mostly Honors or HPs esp in surgery if your school uses those scales), crush your sub-I's, get strong LoRs

Thank you! There’s a lot that goes into this process and I wish I knew the things I know now, it would’ve made the premed journey a lot easier. I don’t want to make the same mistakes so I’m trying to figure out what I need to do in med school to set myself up for success. Your advice means a lot.

 

[Goro]

I'm a current M1 at Brody and I can understand where you are coming from, but I think you are going at it with the wrong mindset. For instance, in this year's match list for IM, we have someone going to Duke and another going to WakeMed (not WFU). A top 10 vs. a place that has a significant portion of its residents coming from the Caribbean. What does that mean?...It is much much more on the individual student and how much work you put in during med school.

This 10000%.

Trying to interpret match lists is a fool's errand.

 

[pazzer2]

You'll be fine. Just study and do well in your classes and on the exams. Doors are wide open for you at this point.

 

[JuicedToTheSocks]

Hi,

I've been recently accepted at Brody School of Medicine (ECU). I'm trying to plan what I need to do for the next for years in order to be a competitive applicant

I know matching itself isn't easy. Looking at the match lists from the past couple of years, I noticed not a lot of students were going into competitive IM residencies or RADS. Most kids seem to match in NC, which makes sense because the school only accepts NC residents.

I was wondering if going to ECU would make it impossible to match in a top IM residency or Anesthesia or ENT. Currently interested in either Cards, Anesthesia, or ENT. Really interested in moving out of NC for residency (California, NYC, or any city) and want to see if my chances of doing that would be diminished going to a school like ECU.

Thank you

Just do an away and work hard, That's literally it. U don't need top scores, lotta research, etc

 

[LucidSplash]

Don’t be fooled into automatically thinking that residency in specialty X at fancy medical school is automatically a “top residency.” Sure some places have the big names and people aspiring to be department chairs with fancy credentials want that on their CV. And some big name med schools/hospitals DO have one of the top residencies in specialty X. But a lot of the “top program” stuff varies widely by field and you won’t really get a feel for what programs are considered top programs until you decide on a specialty and discuss with mentors. Plenty of big name places have toxic or malignant programs or programs where you don’t actually get good mentorship as a resident because your attendings are too busy being “big name hospital attending” and aren’t actually that interested in teaching. And big city programs aren’t necessarily big name programs. Specifically some NYC programs are well know grist mills that run on the backs of a hoard of prelim IMGs and a few categoricals who are too busy trying to survive to be top at anything.

Decide on a specialty, find mentors to guide you, decide on programs to apply to, in that order.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It’s a lot harder for certain specialty, but people from my low tier school match top programs in peds, path, neuro, occasional IM anes

 

[Hollow Knight]

Honestly you need to realize that even if you work 100 hours a week all through med school you may not match ENT or top-tier IM. It's just competitive these days.

But your school probably won't be the limiting factor