Crnas won’t work 7-5 (4 days a week) for 350k all Fridays off 1099 8 weeks off

[Agast]

I view it the exact opposite. I see someone spending 5-6 figures on a bag as the try-hard who has frivolous priorities, and the person getting the convincing replica as a genius for gaming the system and getting the best of both worlds.

Like being an CRNA, PhD instead of wasting time on an MD

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[abolt18]

Like being an CRNA, PhD instead of wasting time on an MD

They literally are getting the best of both worlds, no matter what any of us think. Crnas command a higher pay/hr than MANY physician specialties with phenomenal control of their schedules. Their barrier to entry was miles lower than ours from a time, work ethic, and intelligence standpoint, but their peak clinical earning potential is much higher than many academic anesthesiologists!

So, while your comparison is silly because it's not even close to the same thing, your statement was not necessarily wrong (other than the intent behind the decisions to get a purse (real vs fake) and career choice (physician vs APrn)).

 

[narcotics999]

Like being an CRNA, PhD instead of wasting time on an MD

What is wrong with PhD? There are a lot of them in pharmaceutical fields, in computer science, in engineering who contribute greatly to the society.

 

[Agast]

Access to a real physician nowadays *is* a luxury. Most patients get regulated to a midlevel for their clinic follow-ups or a CRNA does their anesthesia. When people tell me their doctor said XYZ half the time it’s a PA/NP giving them advice.

 

[Agast]

What is wrong with PhD? There are a lot of them in pharmaceutical fields, in computer science, in engineering who contribute greatly to the society.

Bruh, the CRNA PhDs are not going into computer science.

 

[Splenda88]

Have you ever been to puerto vallarta and if yes do you have recommendations

I haven't. Plan to go there or Tulum next year.

 

[Splenda88]

I cringe if I have to spend more than 150 a night for hotel. I've done a few at 300-400 but those were really special occasions.

Do you have any kids?

 

[amyl]

whatever you want to spend your money on is always your business. Some value cars and think the money I spend on fancy hotels and lay flat seats ridiculous… or shoes or purses…. But I’d never buy a Porsche or Lamborghini or some other such thing. We all deserve it.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Lol weren't we all just arguing about the price of eggs in that other thread? Now suddenly, we're talking about luxury bags and suite square footage.

 

[cchoukal]

But a Porsche is like a boat or a horse on a lesser scale. You pay forever. A purse is more of a pay once and done.

Not sure I agree. I bought an older 911 (2008), and, honestly, mostly it runs like a Honda. Sure, it’s a little more to maintain, but not like double a regular car.

 

[nimbus]

Not sure I agree. I bought an older 911 (2008), and, honestly, mostly it runs like a Honda. Sure, it’s a little more to maintain, but not like double a regular car.

How much are the tires? How long do they last?

 

[makemoney2024]

Like being an CRNA, PhD instead of wasting time on an MD

It’s actually a DNAP. I don’t know why so many people keep thinking these people are getting real PhDs. These degrees are fluff so they can also be called “doctor” and feel equivalent to physicians.
The real nurse PhDs are actually doing real work and dissertations and usually are found teaching in institutions.

 

[makemoney2024]

Frivolous is a matter of opinion.

I don’t know. Coming online and complaining about the wife’s spending habits tells us all that there is some level of it considered frivolous by the complainer. That easy.

 

[jwk]

U don’t know the game these days lol
The market is changing

I’ve had deep discussions with management at multiple hospitals. Hospital admin do not want to be the front leaders in pay. But I told them in 6 months being the front leaders means they are middle of the pack.

Comp is just going up and up in locums market

The only way to stop the bleeding is changing the w2 model of work. For docs. That’s min 18 weeks off up to 26 weeks off and doing real 1.0 fte work 40 hours a week. None of them 80 hour work week couple up and working like a 2.0 fte as a single employee.

Time and money

This just boggles my mind. Maybe I'll just find a PRN locums gig when I retire at the end of the year.

We're actually pretty successful hiring anesthetists and docs (I'm not privy to the doc compensation). But you're right - hospitals don't want to lead the pack in compensation, but they damn sure better not fall behind. We upped our compensation last fall to a pretty market-leading package for our area. We're now back in the middle as everyone around us competes for the same labor pool. We've avoided locums, but heavily incentivize people working on their days off to cover all our locations.

 

[jwk]

Like being an CRNA, PhD instead of wasting time on an MD

DNP yes. Every CRNA coming out now has one.

PhD nope. Very rare, especially for a CRNA.

 

[aneftp]

This just boggles my mind. Maybe I'll just find a PRN locums gig when I retire at the end of the year.

We're actually pretty successful hiring anesthetists and docs (I'm not privy to the doc compensation). But you're right - hospitals don't want to lead the pack in compensation, but they damn sure better not fall behind. We upped our compensation last fall to a pretty market-leading package for our area. We're now back in the middle as everyone around us competes for the same labor pool. We've avoided locums, but heavily incentivize people working on their days off to cover all our locations.

Yes
Crnas want (and it’s not the pay per se, of course they went to get paid well)

But crnas these days are after the work schedule

They want to create their own schedule. Work when they feel like it. Thus the 0.5-0.8 fte crna. Provides them flexibility. One easy Envison place in Florida. Healthy asa 1-3
Patients. No ob. No trauma. Envison started forcing crnas to go 1.0 fte to shore up staffing on a consistent basis. Like once again. Admin from remote offices thinking they are the smartest ones in the room. “Lete get these crnas 1.0 fte because we can fill our staffing needs better”. Guess what happen? 5 of them resigned. So instead of 5 crnas covering the equivalent of a 3.0 fte slot. Often times they will work extra shifts to basically fill up to a 4.0 fte equivalent. Now they got bigger issues and need a full 5.0 fte to fill.

That’s what I mean by admin thinking they are the smartest people in the room. It cost them 5 bodies.

 

[amyl]

Our crnas are constantly whining that they are paid under market. The endless bitching is annoying. They complain but don’t leave 🤷‍♀️
Our local board of drs ties our hands a little w how much we pay them, which sucks… because the locums crnas we have brought in to cover undesirable work like GI lab is financially strangling our practice.
We probably do need to pay the crnas more and get rid of these damn locums - but same thing… my group doesn’t want to lead local compensation. Our main competition is the academic center which pays ridiculously high to crnas bc of my crazy high property taxes and endlessly deep government pockets.

 

[makemoney2024]

Our crnas are constantly whining that they are paid under market. The endless bitching is annoying. They complain but don’t leave 🤷‍♀️
Our local board of drs ties our hands a little w how much we pay them, which sucks… because the locums crnas we have brought in to cover undesirable work like GI lab is financially strangling our practice.
We probably do need to pay the crnas more and get rid of these damn locums - but same thing… my group doesn’t want to lead local compensation. Our main competition is the academic center which pays ridiculously high to crnas bc of my crazy high property taxes and endlessly deep government pockets.

What are they making?

 

[aneftp]

Our crnas are constantly whining that they are paid under market. The endless bitching is annoying. They complain but don’t leave 🤷‍♀️
Our local board of drs ties our hands a little w how much we pay them, which sucks… because the locums crnas we have brought in to cover undesirable work like GI lab is financially strangling our practice.
We probably do need to pay the crnas more and get rid of these damn locums - but same thing… my group doesn’t want to lead local compensation. Our main competition is the academic center which pays ridiculously high to crnas bc of my crazy high property taxes and endlessly deep government pockets.

Just be glad you don’t live in upstate New York.
Anesthesia compensation is very high there. Napa pays close to 700k with some extra calls/ work w2

But u are exposed to 8% ny state income taxes plus a 1 million dollar doctors home will come with a whopping 30k property taxes. Or 3% of real value
Texas is around 2% real value property taxes but unfortunately like you mention. Real estate is super high there now. Not cheap in Dallas anymore. Use to get a nice upper middle class home for 600k. Now that home is 1 million plus which comes with a 20k property taxes.

What are they making?

crna already make 200-220k 4 hours a week in 90% of metro areas. That’s 4 days a week with no calls or even less days a week and longer shifts.

Just gets to the point are they cost effective anymore. Many won’t do nights. Most don’t want to do weekends.

Are AAs the solution? Temporary fix for now. Even AAs command the same money as crnas.

Pay a mommy doc $400k 4 days a week? But mommy doc may not even want to work 4 days a week.

See the problem we have?

 

[pgg]

How much are the tires? How long do they last?

A friend of mine ran R compound racing tires on his car, and drove it to work every day. He said he got about 2-3K miles out of each set. He just didn't want to be bothered to switch them out for track days. And he said every drive home was therapeutic.

That said, you don't have to be like him. The cost premium for high performance tires isn't completely absurd. Seriously $1500 for a set of tires every couple or three years isn't ridiculous. And this isn't 1985 when owning a supercar meant paying tens of thousands of dollars for repairs and scheduled service every 15,000 miles, on a car that was broken in some way 25% of the time.

These are good days to own and drive impractical cars, if that's your thing.

 

[aneftp]

Our crnas are constantly whining that they are paid under market. The endless bitching is annoying. They complain but don’t leave 🤷‍♀️
Our local board of drs ties our hands a little w how much we pay them, which sucks… because the locums crnas we have brought in to cover undesirable work like GI lab is financially strangling our practice.
We probably do need to pay the crnas more and get rid of these damn locums - but same thing… my group doesn’t want to lead local compensation. Our main competition is the academic center which pays ridiculously high to crnas bc of my crazy high property taxes and endlessly deep government pockets.

It will never be enough money for crnas. U gotta give them their schedule as well.

Correct no one wants to lead in compensation. The only way to control cost is to have hard cut times for staffing rooms. That’s up to the hospital and their admin. Again. Greed. We know ORs are money machines. ASC had to have zero anesthesia subsidies but even they cannot keep up with salary demands.

How do we fix it? I don’t know. It’s out of control these days. Take the money while u can is my best advice.

Companies and hospitals are just hoping workers fall in line and willing to stay. It just takes one domino to fall before the mass exodus begins at certain places.

 

[nimbus]

A friend of mine ran R compound racing tires on his car, and drove it to work every day. He said he got about 2-3K miles out of each set. He just didn't want to be bothered to switch them out for track days. And he said every drive home was therapeutic.

That said, you don't have to be like him. The cost premium for high performance tires isn't completely absurd. Seriously $1500 for a set of tires every couple or three years isn't ridiculous. And this isn't 1985 when owning a supercar meant paying tens of thousands of dollars for repairs and scheduled service every 15,000 miles, on a car that was broken in some way 25% of the time.

These are good days to own and drive impractical cars, if that's your thing.

Used to daily drive a Porsche. Agree they are reliable but I’d get 10k miles on street tires (maybe it’s the way I drove) and oil changes were $200 at the cheap shop.

 

[nimbus]

It will never be enough money for crnas. U gotta give them their schedule as well.

Correct no one wants to lead in compensation. The only way to control cost is to have hard cut times for staffing rooms. That’s up to the hospital and their admin. Again. Greed. We know ORs are money machines. ASC had to have zero anesthesia subsidies but even they cannot keep up with salary demands.

How do we fix it? I don’t know. It’s out of control these days. Take the money while u can is my best advice.

Companies and hospitals are just hoping workers fall in line and willing to stay. It just takes one domino to fall before the mass exodus begins at certain places.

I don’t blame CRNAs for negotiating the best possible deal for themselves. Has any anesthesiologist ever said, “I’m getting paid too much. Please cut my pay”?

 

[cchoukal]

How much are the tires? How long do they last?

I wanna say the last set was maybe 1200 for the rears. Maybe 800 for the fronts. 8-10k miles.

 

[aneftp]

I don’t blame CRNAs for negotiating the best possible deal for themselves. Has any anesthesiologist ever said, “I’m getting paid too much. Please cut my pay”?

It’s very simple.
$200/hr extra shifts 60 days out
$220/hr 2 weeks out
$250/hr days out.

Some one will bite.

It’s easier for w2 per diem crna and full time crnas w2 to pickup extra shifts than hunt down 1099 shifts if u offer them this incentive

 

[narcotics999]

Just be glad you don’t live in upstate New York.
Anesthesia compensation is very high there. Napa pays close to 700k with some extra calls/ work w2

But u are exposed to 8% ny state income taxes plus a 1 million dollar doctors home will come with a whopping 30k property taxes. Or 3% of real value
Texas is around 2% real value property taxes but unfortunately like you mention. Real estate is super high there now. Not cheap in Dallas anymore. Use to get a nice upper middle class home for 600k. Now that home is 1 million plus which comes with a 20k property taxes.

NYS marginal state tax is 6.85% up to 2.15million for a couple.

Why do you need a million+ home in upstate NY?

 

[narcotics999]

It will never be enough money for crnas. U gotta give them their schedule as well.

Correct no one wants to lead in compensation. The only way to control cost is to have hard cut times for staffing rooms. That’s up to the hospital and their admin. Again. Greed. We know ORs are money machines. ASC had to have zero anesthesia subsidies but even they cannot keep up with salary demands.

How do we fix it? I don’t know. It’s out of control these days. Take the money while u can is my best advice.

Companies and hospitals are just hoping workers fall in line and willing to stay. It just takes one domino to fall before the mass exodus begins at certain places.

OR makes 3000$+ per hour. Pay us 300 or 500 will not make a big difference. Don't sound like we are bleeding the hospital.

 

[nimbus]

Hospitals are flush with cash this year. Stanford made almost $7billion net income. Not bad for a nonprofit.

42 health systems ranked by net income

Check out 42 health systems ranked by net income for fiscal year 2023.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[narcotics999]

Hospitals are flush with cash this year. Stanford made almost $7billion net income. Not bad for a nonprofit.

42 health systems ranked by net income

Check out 42 health systems ranked by net income for fiscal year 2023.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

A lot of profits come from investment, corelating to stock market.

Kaiser: 3.8b from investment, operating income 320million. Still a good number.

 

[teacher2md]

A lot of profits come from investment, corelating to stock market.

Kaiser: 3.8b from investment, operating income 320million. Still a good number.

Likewise, most of hospitals’ hand-wringing about financial losses last year was due to investment losses, not labor costs.

Taxpayers shouldn't foot the bill for health systems' massive 2022 investment losses, health economists say

Any potential financial relief for nonprofit hospitals and health systems reporting major net losses in 2022 must take into account the outsized role negative investment returns had on their bottom | A new analysis of major nonprofit systems' second-quarter 2022 financials attributes 85% of...

www.fiercehealthcare.com

And yet, they get to have their cake and eat it too. Enjoy the market gains, and the public taxpayer money will cover the losses…

 

[nimbus]

A lot of profits come from investment, corelating to stock market.

Kaiser: 3.8b from investment, operating income 320million. Still a good number.

Some of them are basically investment funds with patient care as a side business.

 

[DazedWanderer]

A friend of mine ran R compound racing tires on his car, and drove it to work every day. He said he got about 2-3K miles out of each set. He just didn't want to be bothered to switch them out for track days. And he said every drive home was therapeutic.

That said, you don't have to be like him. The cost premium for high performance tires isn't completely absurd. Seriously $1500 for a set of tires every couple or three years isn't ridiculous. And this isn't 1985 when owning a supercar meant paying tens of thousands of dollars for repairs and scheduled service every 15,000 miles, on a car that was broken in some way 25% of the time.

These are good days to own and drive impractical cars, if that's your thing.

2-3k miles out of each set?! At that rate I'd be spending that $1500 on a new set of tires every 2 months, not every 2 years.

 

[DocVapor]

2-3k miles out of each set?! At that rate I'd be spending that $1500 on a new set of tires every 2 months, not every 2 years.

Yeah. The guy @pgg is talking about is an absolute m o r o n. Having been involved in racing and track days, getting good at swapping out tires already mounted on wheels takes 15 minutes . If you go to track days often enough you're going to have the tools to do it since you routinely need to swap tires mid-weekend.

This might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on this forum.

But, the guy could afford it apparently, so more power to him.

 

[Splenda88]

I guess some starting to pay attention.

https://amp.modbee.com/living/health-fitness/article288720735.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3zMCZsgGzse5XUBvHYoz80F-fjPeHepLqaZSXnbFWMnkc3lqPWd_78wPM_aem_AcdGfAA0TfIhphtWQz94Sql_wZnfwmI3DNN3DvCXeZGBEaQzdJaKEMHtrChUSyQsgtPogd0n52XFUjC0SvxcARM1

 

[aneftp]

I guess some starting to pay attention.

https://amp.modbee.com/living/health-fitness/article288720735.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3zMCZsgGzse5XUBvHYoz80F-fjPeHepLqaZSXnbFWMnkc3lqPWd_78wPM_aem_AcdGfAA0TfIhphtWQz94Sql_wZnfwmI3DNN3DvCXeZGBEaQzdJaKEMHtrChUSyQsgtPogd0n52XFUjC0SvxcARM1

There are so many things wrong with that article.

Crnas being cited for wearing earrings outside of scrubs hat. Seriously? For infection control?

The funny is the the end of the article stating the team model of docs and crna is the “gold standard” of care

No. The gold standard is solo all MD practice. Work maybe one doc around to handle pacu emergency during the daytime. That’s the real gold standard.