I recently started a new job and was terminated without cause, a few months in during the probationary period. Reason given was that I need more training and expereince before being by myself and they are unable to provide. I was told I can say it was mutual (was not happy with them either) but at the same time received a termination letter. Can this affect my state licensure when renewing?
Termination affecting licensure
- Thread starter docdude1
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No but are you a physician? EM trained? Seems weird to tell a residency trained doc they need more training?
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I don’t think this will affect your licensure. Doesn’t seem like they are reporting you to anyone.
Thanks.
I am but not EM trained which I guess would have been more helpful.
Was under the impression they would train and help me but they had no patience.
Right but I noticed when renewing licensure they ask such questions about termination, privileges denial etc. Which seems I need to report? and if so could this affect anything?
I'm assuming the answer would be yes, like for example to the questions which I found below:
Have you ever been denied privileges or had your privileges to practice terminated or limited?
Have you ever been terminated from or have you ever been asked to resign from your hospital staff membership, internship, residency position or fellowship?
Thank you again.
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Usually there's three sides to every story but here we only need the other one. OP, honestly it seems like you should not be practicing EM.
This is a harbinger of things to come, except in 5 years they'll be "EM residency trained".
This is a harbinger of things to come, except in 5 years they'll be "EM residency trained".
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It was peds EM to clarify.
But I'm more wondering if a "without cause termination" could impact my licensure, considering the questions they typically ask like the ones above regarding termination/ privileges terminated.
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Did they offer to let you resign?
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I suspect you'll get better mileage addressing your questions about licensure to your state medical board, rather than The Internet.
They may also be able to help clarify specifically how you can truthfully classify the circumstances surrounding the conclusion of your employment.
They may also be able to help clarify specifically how you can truthfully classify the circumstances surrounding the conclusion of your employment.
No but i should have asked.
They said can say it was mutual but I received a letter of termination without cause.
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Pay a lawyer $500 for two hours of their time and ask them these questions instead of SDN
Employer and hospital privileges are two different things.
Depends on your employment status.
Those questions pertain to your hospital medical staff privileges. These are separate from your employer in most cases.
IE: you work for a group that terminated you, but the group staffs the ED for the hospital system.
Your hospital privileges are not revoked, but you were terminated by the employer.
Depends on your employment status.
Those questions pertain to your hospital medical staff privileges. These are separate from your employer in most cases.
IE: you work for a group that terminated you, but the group staffs the ED for the hospital system.
Your hospital privileges are not revoked, but you were terminated by the employer.
WhatJobDoIPick
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Why are we talking to this person to attempted to work in our field of expertise without residency training, failed, and was rightly terminated???
TRAIN FOR THE JOB YOU WANT.
Yeah, no one wants you handling their little ones without know what the F you are doing. We don't want you murdering our children.
Lol @ "I thought they would train me."
Get out of here.
TRAIN FOR THE JOB YOU WANT.
Yeah, no one wants you handling their little ones without know what the F you are doing. We don't want you murdering our children.
Lol @ "I thought they would train me."
Get out of here.
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We all know the state medical board isn't on our side...
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Medical Boards vary, sometimes dramatically in their rules (based on statutes and case law).
Seek information from local counsel or your State Medical Association.
Seek information from local counsel or your State Medical Association.
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Concur with @gyngyn. You really need legal counsel to advise you. Answering a question wrongly on a medical staff or medical board application can have career ending consequences. Being denied licensure because you lied on an application has way more weight than an employer terminating you without restricting your hospital privileges.
On-the-job training? That's what residency is for. Nobody is going to provide you with double coverage in a smaller hospital to allow you on-the-job training. Larger hospitals will require BE/BC status before they hire you.
On-the-job training? That's what residency is for. Nobody is going to provide you with double coverage in a smaller hospital to allow you on-the-job training. Larger hospitals will require BE/BC status before they hire you.
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It will likely affect BOTH licensure, but much more so hospital credentialing, especially if applying for credentials to emergency medicine. I actually don’t think it’ll have that much affect on your state license but if they or anyone entity asks. You must report it.
I can’t imagine nor heard of any pediatric specific ED hiring non peds->EM or EM->Peds trained so this is quite confusing.
I can’t imagine nor heard of any pediatric specific ED hiring non peds->EM or EM->Peds trained so this is quite confusing.
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Bite your tongue! It has never, ever, ever happened, ever, on SDN that someone gives half (or less) of the story, but wants a whole response. Never!!
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I’m not an attorney, but generally speaking in “not for cause” physician termination situations, this would not be reportable and would not have any impact on future credentialing or licensure.
Many physicians get “laid off” (this particularly happened during the pandemic). Those are “not for cause” terminations and they generally do not have any repercussions. As long as there is no other context for problems (you were “under investigation” at the time of termination, or they restricted or cancelled your privileges, or something), this is basically a nothing burger.
Review this with an attorney, obviously, but this happens to doctors and generally it is not an issue. It is a *for cause* termination that causes people problems.
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Termination without cause could mean anything. I was prn at one of my old jobs, they hired a bunch of fresh meat, and ended my contract. I didn't think anything about it and never brought it up. If it pops up, I would just say they didn't need coverage anymore and move on. Seems simple.
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I actually do want someone's opinion on this as I now have a related question. I left a job and sent a formal resignation letter back in august of last year saying as of November 30 I wished to end my full time contract. I fully did this to pursue a job elsewhere due to leadership opportunities in a different CMG. Company said absolutely. We understand. I got a call from the regional director soon afterwards saying that they would love to keep me on part-time and that they would be happy to give me a part time contract. So I signed a part time contract soon afterwards to begin once the full time ended.
The local director at that site was a paranoid guy who thought everyone was always out to get him (and eventually his fear-based behaviour did get him canned), and interpreted his most active full-time doctor leaving suddenly as some sort of slight against him or attempt to destabilize his scheduling or something. Point is that he became very openly hostile to me at work and I just ignored it, and a few weeks later I would find out that there was an anonymous complaint filed against me that I was not a team player and insubordinate even the regional director said he has almost a 100% certain came from my director. He also said that there is literally nothing in there "to investigate" but that every complaint has to be investigated and he told me he figured it was easier to just void that part-time contract and act like he never offered to me and we would just let me resign the way I had originally requested. He said even if we do the investigation and nothing is found, cause there was nothing to it, he said he did not think I would want to work under a guy who would do that to me. He makes a point to specifically say all of this is nothing reportable and he just thinks it's less headache for him and me to just take a path of least resistance. This is all like the first week of September.
Fast forward to literally wednesday of this week. Out of the blue, with me having been resigned and not a part of the team for 5 months as far as I can tell, I get a certified letter from the company. It is dated from like a week ago. It says of the letter serves as formal notification of termination of my services at that site as of Nov 30th. Which I'm confused about because I was under the impression I resigned months ago and now they're retroactively updating that to termination months later? Do I have to report that for future jobs? It's relevant because I'm literally looking at the employment/privileges packet for a new job right this second in my email inbox.
The local director at that site was a paranoid guy who thought everyone was always out to get him (and eventually his fear-based behaviour did get him canned), and interpreted his most active full-time doctor leaving suddenly as some sort of slight against him or attempt to destabilize his scheduling or something. Point is that he became very openly hostile to me at work and I just ignored it, and a few weeks later I would find out that there was an anonymous complaint filed against me that I was not a team player and insubordinate even the regional director said he has almost a 100% certain came from my director. He also said that there is literally nothing in there "to investigate" but that every complaint has to be investigated and he told me he figured it was easier to just void that part-time contract and act like he never offered to me and we would just let me resign the way I had originally requested. He said even if we do the investigation and nothing is found, cause there was nothing to it, he said he did not think I would want to work under a guy who would do that to me. He makes a point to specifically say all of this is nothing reportable and he just thinks it's less headache for him and me to just take a path of least resistance. This is all like the first week of September.
Fast forward to literally wednesday of this week. Out of the blue, with me having been resigned and not a part of the team for 5 months as far as I can tell, I get a certified letter from the company. It is dated from like a week ago. It says of the letter serves as formal notification of termination of my services at that site as of Nov 30th. Which I'm confused about because I was under the impression I resigned months ago and now they're retroactively updating that to termination months later? Do I have to report that for future jobs? It's relevant because I'm literally looking at the employment/privileges packet for a new job right this second in my email inbox.
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